Timeline for How to use a Munter hitch to belay and rappel?
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
14 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
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| Sep 27, 2017 at 4:15 | history | edited | Charlie Brumbaugh |
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| Jun 30, 2016 at 20:15 | vote | accept | StrongBad | ||
| Mar 2, 2016 at 17:35 | answer | added | requiem | timeline score: 10 | |
| Mar 2, 2016 at 16:27 | comment | added | StrongBad | @BenCrowell Opps, I butchered the comment. The big difference is in regards to the chance of unlocking the gate. Had a partner on El Cap take a very long fall, only to be saved by the haul line, after the Munter unlocked and uncliped from his biner. The small difference was in regards to spine/gate side. From my understanding, if the gate breaks (or opens) having the load near the spine is better because it is a shorter lever. | |
| Mar 2, 2016 at 16:21 | comment | added | user2169 | there is a slight strength difference between spine and gate sides (and in my experience there is a big difference) I don't understand. First you say it's slight, and then you say it's big? What is the experience that tells you there's a big difference? Have you broken a carabiner? There is a difference in strength between cross-loading a carabiner and loading it properly. I don't believe it makes any difference in strength whether you flip the orientation of the biner about its long axis. In both cases, the spine and the gate side are each holding half the load (or the biner would rotate). | |
| Mar 2, 2016 at 16:16 | comment | added | user2169 | isn't downwards the least amount of friction? You're a mathematician, right? You might enjoy this: lightandmatter.com/article/knots.html . The basic idea is that in this type of knot, there is a force that you apply on the brake strand, and the knot amplifies that force by some factor. According to FotH, the amplification factor shows a small amount of variation (25%) depending on the direction in which you hold the brake strand. But for all directions, the amplification is so huge that if you're rappelling, you can easily stop your rappel by applying a small force. | |
| Mar 2, 2016 at 15:45 | comment | added | StrongBad | @BenCrowell at a minimum, if there is no difference in the chance of unlocking the gate, there is a slight strength difference between spine and gate sides (and in my experience there is a big difference). I have never seen debate about the "fact" that a clove hitch should be tied so the weighted end is next to the spine. | |
| Mar 2, 2016 at 15:43 | comment | added | StrongBad | @BenCrowell maybe I am missing something, but isn't downwards the least amount of friction? I agree that when rappelling with a Munter sometimes there is too much friction and it is difficult to move. | |
| Mar 2, 2016 at 15:36 | comment | added | user2169 | The fact that people use an autoblock when rappelling with a Munter does not mean that downward is the strongest braking position. The figure from FotH reproduced in DudeOnRock's answer claims that you still get 75% of the maximum braking force in this position. You don't want or need 100% of the braking force when you're rappelling. 100% of the braking force is enough to catch a hard lead fall, which is many times greater than what is needed in order to stop your rappell and hold body weight. | |
| Mar 2, 2016 at 15:35 | comment | added | Roflo | @BenCrowell Yeah, I find it odd too. If it weren't a locking carabiner it would be more of an issue, but I wouldn't use this know at all with a non-locking carabiner. | |
| Mar 2, 2016 at 15:32 | comment | added | user2169 | I don't see why it would matter whether the load strand is closer to the gate or closer to the spine. Since FotH illustrates it the opposite way compared to what Powers says, this seems to confirm that it doesn't matter. This is probably similar to the question of the orientation of the carabiner when using an ATC; many people have opinions or their own habits, but there is no clear evidence (that I know of) that it matters, and experienced, knowledgeable people do it different ways. | |
| Mar 2, 2016 at 7:38 | answer | added | DudeOnRock | timeline score: 12 | |
| Mar 2, 2016 at 4:06 | history | tweeted | twitter.com/StackOutdoors/status/704880515996893184 | ||
| Mar 2, 2016 at 1:38 | history | asked | StrongBad | CC BY-SA 3.0 |